Angry cadets riot following drug search

[Class of 1998]

First of all, when I was a cadet we had time to blow off steam during TEEs, Term End Exams etc.....people would turn up their radios, throw toilet paper out the window and Oh My God, Naked man streaking and we had Naked Men and Women Basketball in the area between Ike Hall, Pershiing , and MacArthur Barracks....oh no.....and of course those who were caught or informed on by their classmates or by the First Captain or other TOOLBAGS got in trouble.....but it was harmless....and NO I WAS NOT ONE OF THEM....so this incident is a little blown out of proportion but SERIOULSY, as for the fireworks....I think the instigators and those who used those fireworks should be EXPELLED!!!!.....but you can't expell 1,000 cadets....Now, West Point needs to work on the discipline issue...the CORPS HAS....I see it with all the new 2LT's that come to me here at OBC...they have an excuse for everything...what happended to Yes, Sir, No Sir....No Excuse Sir!!!! That's what happens when you take away what you call the little things like pinging, mess hall duties, and walking the area!!!! It's the little things....drill etc...some may say that this is petty, and not important...but if you have discipline and pay attention to details in the small stuff, then you will have discipline in the big stuff.....I saw this lack of discipline when I was a Basic Training Commander.....the privates have all these rights....and their "R" Day was a joke....that's why we have privates and cadets not saluting, having excuses up the ying yang etc......there is no drill or espirit de corps anymore!!! They need to learn how to follow and obey orders....and pay attention,....if they can't polish their shoes, listen to simple orders, and march in a line, then how the hell do you expect them to open fire at the enemy in a chaotic environment with everyone yelling and screaming at them.....oh no I better pull out my stress card!!!!! West Point is going to far to the left....we need to bring it back to the right....OLD SKOOL...now I am not talking about degrading them....every soldier should be given respect etc...but for crying out loud...they can endure someone yelling in their face from time to time...when they go to war....no one is going to baby them!!!!
BEAT NAVY
Anyhow, those cadets that were insubordinate, used fireworks etc should be EXPELLED!!!!!
CPT SAPPER
USMA 1998

[anonymous]

One more thing, the comment about the Honor of the corps and using the fire drill to mask the search for drugs...there is something called the UCMJ and JAG...they cover the rules regarding Health and Welfare Inspections (search or drugs) and Illegal Searches and seizures....maybe you should read that Highspeed.

[kiopl56]

For those interested, here is the "official" OC report. I don't think it is just the media that blew this out of context, but the OC as well.....Just look at the language that was used.



2 0625 0900
USCC Health and Welfare and Drug Sting Operation with K9 units from various local law enforcement agencies. Overall, K9 had 4 false positives, but yielded nothing substantial
No significant issues
3 0830
During a Health and Welfare Inspection in D2, one container with several capsules were found containing what is suspected to be an illegal substance
MPI and TAC continue to investigate
4 0900 1015 Third Regiment continues search with K9 in barracks No issues
5 1150 1230 Observed 1st Reg Lunch formation, cadet mess Logged
6 1330 1500 Attended BTO sensing session with G and H TACs Logged
7 2000 2200 Walked through Firstie Club and Eisenhower Hall No issues
8 2233
Explosion in Central Area; turned out to be fireworks inside a plastic bottle, but it ignited a riot
Logged
9 2233 1145
Riot in Central Area!

Hundreds of cadets were hollering obscenities out of their windows and some were throwing objects. Many cadets were running through the area and/or standing in gang like elements.
About 2000 cadets were involved and witness to this travesty.

Many cadets were shouting things like: “Fire” – “Call in the dogs” – “Where’s naked man” – “f**k you BTO”
Called the MPs and BTO
10 2245 Platoon size element of MPs arrived in Central Area and the cadets cheered and shouted more obscenities Logged
11 2250
Fire truck and a team size element of firemen responded to the scene as cadets were throwing objects that were on fire out of the windows in Bradley Barracks

Cadets cheered even more and shouted obscenities

In general, MPs, OC, Firemen and others could not believe what they were witnessing!
MPs, OC, and Fire Supervisor agreed best COA would be to move out of Central Area and off to the side and hopefully the riot would subside


12 2300
Cadets began to pick up garbage in Central Area and other cadets threw various things at the good Samaritan cadets

One cadet got hit with a peanut butter jar, but was not seriously injured

One cadet shot a bottle rocket and ran away and another cadet played the naked man game again

First Captain joined with others who were picking up garbage in Central Area and these good acts seemed to help quell the riot somewhat

OC/MPs observed
13 2300 During TAPS, cadets were hollering “f**k you” and it was truly shameful Logged
14 2330 Riot died out. It was a shameful, pitiful day for USMA! Logged
15 2330 0650 No activity during this period Logged
16 0650 Conducted joint inventory and relieved by SFC Navarro (F1) Debriefed and conducted changeover

[Lisa Steptoe]

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5369759

Here's a good story on the event. I wasn't there of course, but based on what I know about cadets it seems to me that this story captures the spirit of what actually happened. Cadets are always going to look for opportunities to act stupid and blow off steam, otherwise USMA would be graduating a thousand robots into the army each year. The cadets probably went a little far this time, but I don't see this as an occasion for too much hand-wringing.

C. Smith
B-3, '91

[Demaris Johanek]

Rally? Sure.
Disrespectful? Absolutely.
Punishment? Absolutely.

This is a situation in which the Corps should be able to accept the consequences of their actions. Take everyone's off-post privileges for a couple of weeks, schedule a SAMI or two along with Corps-wide drill to instill a little discipline. I understand that these cadets are young men and women, but so are our young Soldiers living in the barracks. And we would never tolerate this conduct from them.

[BL 73]

Demaris Johanek: After reading the OC’s log, I totally agree with you. However, I would take it one step further. I would determine who threw the firecrackers and the jar that hit the cadet. In the civilian and Army world, this is a serious crime which could be prosecuted as Assault with a Deadly Weapon. What would be the reaction if the cadet was hit in the temple or eye resulting in death or serious injury? As a grad and father, if my son was hit by that jar; I would be out for blood. What if someone lost an eye due to a firecracker? Another poster stated that a cadet was once dismissed for “mooning”. If that’s the case, I would think that striking another cadet with a dangerous object would warrant more punishment than stating that the struck cadet “should’ve ducked” (as one reply stated).

Also, this “rally” appears to have some underpinnings of systemic anger / frustration on the part of the Corp. This incident is distinctly different from food fights, streaking, painting statues and other harmless cadet mischief. When things get to the point of using profanity directed at Officers, Police / MP’s and interfering with the fire fighters to the point of rendering them ineffective and striking other cadets with potentially dangerous objects, this goes beyond the classification of playful pranks. This said, I would hope that the Academy looks into this to determine the “health” of the Corp and “the system”.

I would go so far as to interview / survey each cadet in the Corp; using the Dean’s staff and not the Tacs (who are directly involved in performance evaluations). I would even go so far as to offer immunity for anything stated in the interview and an official order that all interviews would remain anonymous and that no cadet can be questioned about or compelled to reveal anything that occurred during the interviews. Have the results analyzed and results reported – to all. I know this is an extreme recommendation but at the minimum, something must be done to find out why this occurred.

[BL 73]

One last thing. In my previous reply, I stated "my son" when I should've stated "my son or daughter". I come from the time when women were not at the Academy. A mental slip. No sexism intended and my apologies.

[Jamie R Chapman]

Buy a vowel and get a clue!

Some cadets threw trash and used profanity. I'm sure it was the first time any thing like this has ever happened in the history of the Corps. They should be ashamed for causing such a travesty and inviting the end of the world.

Get real! I thought the dinosaurs died out a long time ago. There was a "riot" when I came for my orientation visit in 1998 which was apparently the last good year of the academy according to CPT Sapper. Only back then they called them "spirit rallies" and naked people ran around without risk of being "expelled!" or having their off-post privileges taken away.

You keep a kid locked up in a cage and the first chance he gets to rattle the chains, he's gonna do it. Let them have fun. Let them have their cigars on the plain and their peanut butter jar flinging, and their cheap beer at the thirsty firstie. The Corps hasn't changed it's just stepped into reality and left most of you behind.

Why does every "incident" have to turn into a bashing of the new grads. 2LTs whine and complain and make excuses. Yeah, cuz they're 2LTs. While I'm sure the class of '98 was perfect in every respect, every class before you thought you were whiners and rejects too.

And none of this relates in any way to how those kids will perform in a war zone. I'm from the mutinying class of 2003 and most (if not all of us) have been to war at least once. Some of us didn't make it back, but we all did and continue to do great things. Step down off your high horse, take a prozac and stop freaking out. Our precious academy and its reputation will remain intact and tomorrow we'll all wake up and find that the world did not crumble around us while we slept.

Chappie

[cheeser53]

As a 75 grad it's kind of hard to hear grads of the 80's being called old timers.
My first thought is that attendance at the Academy is a voluntary event so the " locked up" comment is displaced. I When you agree to attend you agree to the conditions. I dare say the later classes had many more freedoms and priveleges than we did in the 70's as we had more priveleges and freedoms than the cadets of the 50's.

Fortunately I never had to attend a war and for that I will not apologize. When MP's and fire trucks are called in the situation passes from letting off steam to hooligaism. No matter how one tries to portray this incident it is a situation that as a grad you don't expect to happen.


Maybe it was a big deal and maybe it wasn't to the cadets who participated but are we as "old grads" supposed to accept that we are so out of touch as to expect the present day cadet to accept personal responsibility for their actions. If punishable events happened and throwing a jar of peanut butter is punishable, then punishments should have been handed out. The times may change but I always like to think that what the academy is trying to accomplish has not.

Oh by the way I did spend some quality time on the area and confinement for several offenses that I readily agree were my own fault.

Ron Cheese class of 75

[BL 73]

Hey Cheeser – thanks for your measured response. However, I did want to remind Chappie of an old phrase: ”Those that fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it”, i.e., there is a lot he can learn from us old relics. In regards to us being relics, I think a more accurate phrase would’ve been that we came from an era when “Men (and Women) Were Men and Giants (sorry Chappie, I meant to say Dinosaurs) Walked the Earth” - smiles. Granted, our “sense of direction” may have be guided by that antique called a lensetic compass and not GPS but we got to where we needed to go and still accomplished the mission.

Hey Chappie – technology, strategy and tactics will change over time but the principles of discipline, character and military decorum have and will remain like the Rock of Ages. That’s what us old decrepit relics were debating. Also, I’d be curious as to how Gen. Abizaid (Class of 73 / CG USCENTCOM) would react to being called a Dinosaur – smiles.

[ARMY FOOTBALL 99]

Wow. It's quite a bit of emotion in this chat room. First off let me say that I respect everyone's opinion. I will be brief. I was alarmed when I read the heading of the article, yet when I read the details all I could do was laugh. Pretty ridiculous. The only issue that I have is that everytime any seemingly large incident occurs at the academy it gets seeped out to the whole country and it is embarassing. I could care less about all the coffee room jokes I get at work about cadets. My only hope is that someday the Corp of Cadets and administration would learn to follow the Cancun Principle. WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CORP STAYS IN THE CORP!

BW - CLASS OF 99 - HOLLA AT YOUR BOY!

[Jamie Chapman 2003]

When I said "dinosaurs" I wasn't referring to "Old Grads" per se. That was directed at CPT Sapper and his neanderthal mentality that some people seem to share that back in their day WP was great and the very next year it all went downhill and the sky fell in. He holds his class to be the last great class and the corps has and blah, blah, blah. And that's garbage.
Every year a thousand honest, hardworking cadets who struggled in their own way like every class before them walks across the stage and takes an oath to protect and defend. They are no better and no worse for the wear than any class before or after them. That's the part that ticked me off.
I have no problem with old grads - except that you keep referring to me as a he when I'm a she. I think anybody who volunteers to serve their country ought to be patted on the back every day. I meant no disrespect to the men and women who came before me. I just get tired of hearing how the coprs has and how WP is nothing like it used to be. Well, maybe that's for the best in a lot of ways. Maybe there are a lot of ways it can still be better. But man, stop running down those who come after you because you don't know what they had to sacrifice to get to where they are. I'm sure you had it tough and in their eyes, they have it tough too.
We all suffered. I don't think that will ever change. So why not stand united rather than sling crap at each other?
That was my point and I won't beat it to death anymore.

Chappie

[BL 73]

Hi Chappie. First, my apologies for the gender slip and assumption. Second, I think all of us that replied to this have exhausted all points to be made. Bottomline for me is I trust the Academy will do the right thing as it relates to this incident. And, I agree with you - all respect forever to those that came before and will come after us. My references to my era being when giants walked the earth, etc., were in jest. My generation has passed the torch and I know you won't let the flame go out.

Lastly, even though you weren't referring to me as a dinosaur - I don't mind the descriptor because how many people do you know will mess with a dinosaur in a dark alley? Be well Chappie.

[JW]

All-

I seem to be catching a lot of flack for my comments (and some agreements of course). I do know that everyone in the forum is a grad or will be. However my comments extend to much more than the members of this forum. This thing has reached much further than members of the line. Mrs. Steptoe, I do not have a chip on my shoulder, but after sitting in on a media panel this semester and seeing first hand how these folks blow things out of proportion to sell the best storie (which they will readily admit and did at this panel) as well as catching a lot of hell from the civilian side both from my home and even here at West Point, I felt the need to voice my opinions just like everyone else in this forum. There is no chip on my shoulder, I love West Point, I love the Army, and I can't wait to serve my country until I am physically unable to anymore. My comments were more directed to:

1. those who seem to be taking this story literally, when it is not an accurate account of what happened (I was there) and
2. non-West Pointers who are seeing this forum (b/c I know for a fact that there are civilians/non-west pointers who read this) and have labeled cadets as a bunch of crazy, out of control, immature, rioters based on a badly reported story because they have nothing more to go on, especially when even our own are assuming the worst about us.

I apologize if anyone felt any disrespect, but like I said, I love West Point and it hurts me personally to hear anyone speaking ill of it (esp when it's based on illegitimacy), whether it's members of my family who are checking up on what's going on at WP, Army officers, my CTLT Company Commander (a ROTC grad who likes to check up on this stuff) or members of the long grey line. Everyone here remembers what it was like to be a cadet, things don't seem to really change from what I hear as far as cadets are concerned. When I spoke with a '66 grad last week, I was amazed at the parallel. And while all of us have past memories to compare things too, the non-west pointers do not. So it saddens me when they read stories like this and make assumptions without the basis that we have. It's things like that that hurt the ideals that West Point tries to instill in each of us.

Again, apologies for any perceived disrespect, there was none intended. This will be the last time I participate in this forum. I just wanted everyone to know that the story reported was basically an over-exaggerated lie and point out a few points that contradict what the reporter wrote, to include the fact that he is not a grad and thus doesn't have the viewpoint that we do.

But I wish everyone the best of luck and God bless.

[Lisa Steptoe]

JW- I'm disappointed to hear that this will be the last time you participate in the forum. This was the best thread since I formed this forum and am glad to hear the thoughts and opinions of other grads.

Hope you won't be a ghost. If everyone just went quietly into the night then the media and others would certainly continue to portray one view of events.

God Bless.

Lisa 87